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Cypriana22	History Books	Lead	[-]
Posts: 18309 (10/18/2008 22:03) Board Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : cyprus, history, books Cypriot students are seen near the front door of Phaniromeni School in the heart of the old town of Nicosia, on October 2. A decision by the Cyprus government to revise history textbooks to bolster peaceful coexistence between the island's Greek and Turkish speaking communities has enraged many clerics and politicians. (AFP/File/Daniel Sorabji) Cypriot primary school text books lay on a desk in Phaniromeni School in the heart of the old town of Nicosia, on October 2. A decision by the Cyprus government to revise history textbooks to bolster peaceful coexistence between the island's Greek and Turkish speaking communities has enraged many clerics and politicians. (AFP/File/Daniel Sorabji) Should Cyprus history books be changed? (Result) NO YES
asp2		#1	[-]
Posts: 18985 (10/19/2008 03:29) Sir Albert Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Those stupid 'clerics and politicians' must realise once and for all that without peaceful co-existence and mutual respect between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, there can never be viable re-unification and true nationhood! It is essential for young minds to start realising it from an early age at school before those looney clerics and old revanchists start getting at their minds in churches and coffee-shops! "Love thy neighbour as thyself, BUT if thy neighbour wishes to cut thy throat because of thy nationality, religion, race or any other reason, make damn' sure you cut the bastard's throat first." (asp 2007)
Eros247		#2	[-]
Posts: 14963 (10/19/2008 05:40) The Sensitive One Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	History books should in all cases reflect the truth. If RoC history books need to be changed for that to happen, so be it. Would be nice to see a move like this in Greece, Turkey and the occupied North of Cyprus, too.
Savabi		#3	[-]
Posts: 312 (10/19/2008 09:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	History books should in all cases reflect the truth. I agree. Nothing could stop us since we started to violate the truth of history.
asp2		#4	[-]
Posts: 18985 (10/19/2008 11:03) Sir Albert Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Eros247 wrote: History books should in all cases reflect the truth. THE TRUTH?????? Whose 'truth'???? It has been said that a country's history books to be used for teaching the nation's schoolkids should be compiled by totally 'neutral third parties', and then one can never be sure of the 'total neutrality' of that 'third party'. My contention is that the product will be synthetic and impractical, but ..... Co-incidentally, I had a long discussion on this topic in Cyprus less than 2 weeks ago with a (Greek Cypriot) friend who has published recently an illustrated history of Cyprus in English and in Greek for pre-teens. A Turkish translation is planned. "Love thy neighbour as thyself, BUT if thy neighbour wishes to cut thy throat because of thy nationality, religion, race or any other reason, make damn' sure you cut the bastard's throat first." (asp 2007)
Cypriana22		#5	[-]
Posts: 18309 (10/19/2008 11:08) Board Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Should we go back and changed 10000 of Cyprus existence so we don't hurt peoples feelings? Its how history is taught that is important and the truth must be told.Schools must teach the younger generation not to repeat what happened between the communities even though is not 100% the fault of Cypriots. May be they should start teaching in British ,American,Greek and Turkish Schools that their politicians should stop meddling in other countries affairs; and the most important thing to teach them that expansionism should not be part of the 21st century, if they want the this world to be in Peace. Time for Turkey to get out of Cyprus !
Savabi		#6	[-]
Posts: 312 (10/19/2008 11:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	hehehehe:blowkiss
Savabi		#7	[-]
Posts: 312 (10/19/2008 11:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Cypriana22		#8	[-]
Posts: 18309 (10/19/2008 11:14) Board Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Comes back to you Time for Turkey to get out of Cyprus !
asp2		#9	[-]
Posts: 18985 (10/19/2008 11:19) Sir Albert Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Cypriana22 wrote: Should we go back and changed 10000 of Cyprus existence so we don't hurt peoples feelings? Its how history is taught that is important and the truth must be told.Schools must teach the younger generation not to repeat what happened between the communities even though is not 100% the fault of Cypriots. May be they should start teaching in British ,American,Greek and Turkish Schools that their politicians should stop meddling in other countries affairs; and the most important thing to teach them that expansionism should not be part of the 21st century, if they want the this world to be in Peace. ... and maybe pigs should be taught to fly and Bedu'in should be taught to stop beating their wives and kissing their camels ...... and as all this is impossible, perhaps we should do nothing to raise our youngsters with clear thinking and continue to feed them with the biased thinking of their parents and priests/imams so that they can carry on the healthy tradition of hating their neighbours umtil the day that peoples should wipe each other out, once and for all ...... aaaamen! "Love thy neighbour as thyself, BUT if thy neighbour wishes to cut thy throat because of thy nationality, religion, race or any other reason, make damn' sure you cut the bastard's throat first." (asp 2007)
Cypriana22		#10	[-]
Posts: 18309 (10/19/2008 11:24) Board Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hade Albert,look at the situation in a logical way.No one should wipe their history , How would people know 2000 years from now what tokk place in Cyprus in 1974? Right or wrong it has to be written. Time for Turkey to get out of Cyprus !
asp2		#11	[-]
Posts: 18985 (10/19/2008 11:44) Sir Albert Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Cypriana22 wrote: Hade Albert,look at the situation in a logical way.No one should wipe their history , How would people know 2000 years from now what tokk place in Cyprus in 1974? Right or wrong it has to be written. OF COURSE history should be written and preserved and taught, Skevi, no one is denying this. The point at issue is HOW it should be written. Should it continue to carry the old "We were always 100% right, made no mistakes, showed nothing but love but were kicked in the pissinos by bastard Turks, Brits, Yanks, UN etc, and God willing, 'tha psofisoun' and we will be free of them all to live happily by the seaside", or should balanced, mature history be presented to our children and grandchildren so that they can live in peace with their neighbours? What cannot, and MUST not be forgotten is that there are TWO communities of Cypriots, each of which rightly considers its 'root' culture as very important BUT which seem to: (1) deny and disrespect the value of the other community's culture and historic perceptions (2) forget that there is also a common culture and history to be cherished and nurtured if there is to be a truly re-unified, independent and successful Cyprus to be proud of . The American, Swiss and others too came from a variety cultures. Most of them have never denied this, but have made conscious decisions to 'grow' a new, common culture and traditions that also reflect their love of their 'new country. Only the more 'primitive' peoples have adhered to their 'old traditions and loyalties, which perpetuates tribalism and division. Their test books reflect this. (3) forget that it 'takes two to tango' and that BOTH communities in Cyprus made fatal political mistakes towards each other, which allowed self-interested and cynical third parties to interfere and make the situation worse, by which I mean Greece, Britain, Turkey and others. Those mistakes MUST be recognized in history books if progress is to me made. If your children are to survive and grow up as independent Cypriots, then the history that they are taught must be enlightened and emphasise the importance of mutual respect between Cypriots of each community. Eros obliquely made the valid point that things can only really succeed if the history books of of Turkish Cypriot students as well as those of Greek Cypriots students should be 'honest' and enlightened. One would hope that the Turkish Cypriot educators copy the initiative of their Greek Cypriot compatriots in injecting more honesty and less bias into their own childrens' history books, but if they do not, this would be no excuse for the Greek Cypriot educators to abandon teaching greater history honesty, respect and enlightenment. Remember, the ancient Greek philosophers would have asked for nothing less for posterity. "Love thy neighbour as thyself, BUT if thy neighbour wishes to cut thy throat because of thy nationality, religion, race or any other reason, make damn' sure you cut the bastard's throat first." (asp 2007) Last edited by: asp2 10/20/2008 06:31. Edited 3 times.
anastasia30		#12	[-]
Posts: 23 (10/20/2008 06:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This is a nice comment that was sent to me on my email. I don't know who originally wrote it but it gives a sarcastic answer to those who want to change the real facts. It is written in Greek though. ΚΑΤΑΦΕΡΑ ΚΑΙ ΕΞΑΣΦΑΛΙΣΑ ΑΠΟ ΣΟΒΑΡΗ ΠΗΓΗ ΕΝΑ ΚΕΦΑΛΑΙΟ ΤΟΥ ΚΑΙΝΟΥΡΓΙΟΥ ΒΙΒΛΙΟΥ ΤΗΣ ΙΣΤΟΡΙΑΣ ΤΗΣ ΚΥΠΡΟΥ ΠΟΥ ΘΑ ΕΧΟΥΜΕ ΛΙΑΝ ΣΥΝΤΟΜΩΣ ΣΤΑ ΣΧΟΛΕΙΑ !!! Ενώ συνεχίζονται οι έντονες αντιδράσεις στην επίμαχη εγκύκλιο του Υπουργού Παιδείας για την επαναπροσέγγιση, η στήλη πληροφορείται ότι έχουν ήδη υποβληθεί στον κ. Δημητρίου εισηγήσεις για το πώς πρέπει να ξαναγραφτούν τα γεγονότα του 1974 στα βιβλία της Ιστορίας: Τον Ιούλιο του 1974, κάπου 200.000 Ελληνοκύπριοι αποφάσισαν να εγκαταλείψουν τα σπίτια και τις περιουσίες τους στο βόρειο τμήμα της Κύπρου, εξαιτίας μιας περίεργης εισβολής ακρίδων, φιδιών, άλλων ερπετών, τρωκτικών και άλλων παρόμοιων απεχθών ειδών του ζωικού βασιλείου. Για την καταπολέμηση των ερπετών ήρθαν στην Κύπρο από την Τουρκία κάπου 40.000 εμπειρογνώμονες σε μεθόδους εξόντωσης βλαβερών όντων, οι οποίοι άρχισαν εντατικές προσπάθειες για ν' απαλλάξουν τη νήσο από αυτήν τη μάστιγα. Οι Τούρκοι εμπειρογνώμονες άρχισαν σιγά-σιγά να εξαφανίζουν τα φίδια. Ωστόσο οι Ελληνοκύπριοι, φοβισμένοι από το ενδεχόμενο να επανεμφανιστούν τα ερπετά, αρνούνταν να επιστρέψουν στα σπίτια τους για 34 χρόνια. Λόγω αυτού του γεγονότος και για να μη μείνουν κενά τόσες χιλιάδες σπίτια στο βόρειο τμήμα του νησιού, χιλιάδες τουρίστες που ήρθαν από την Τουρκία για διακοπές εκεί, αποφάσισαν να μείνουν στα σπίτια αυτά, για να τα περιποιούνται. Είναι χαρακτηριστικό ότι οι τουρίστες αυτοί ήρθαν στην Κύπρο στο πλαίσιο ενός τουριστικού πακέτου, που είχε την ονομασία «Η Αϊσιέ πάει διακοπές». Οι Ελληνοκύπριοι κάτοικοι του βόρειου τμήματος της Κύπρου, πάνω στη σπουδή τους να εγκαταλείψουν τα σπίτια και τις περιουσίες τους, λόγω της παρουσίας των φαρμακερών φιδιών, ενεπλάκησαν σε πολλά δυστυχήματα, από τα οποία είχαν χιλιάδες νεκρούς, ενώ πάρα πολλοί ήταν και οι αγνοούμενοι, διότι έθαβαν όπως-όπως τα θύματα της ασφάλτου. Επίσης, μετά το 1974, πάρα πολλές εκκλησίες στο βόρειο τμήμα του νησιού καταστράφηκαν από σεισμούς και άλλες φυσικές καταστροφές, οι δε ιερές εικόνες και άλλα κειμήλια που βρίσκονταν σ' αυτές αφαιρέθηκαν από τους Τούρκους τουρίστες που αναφέραμε πιο πάνω και μεταφέρθηκαν για προστασία στο εξωτερικό. Κατά έναν ανεξήγητο τρόπο, που μάλλον οφείλεται σε θαύμα της φύσης, στην πλαγιά της οροσειράς Five Fingers (Πενταδάκτυλος) στη βόρεια Κύπρο, σχηματίστηκε μια τεράστια τουρκική σημαία. Πολλές κόκκινες και άσπρες πέτρες μετακινήθηκαν ταυτόχρονα, λόγω διάβρωσης του εδάφους, και σχημάτισαν τη σημαία, η οποία παραμένει μέχρι σήμερα εκεί, ως τεκμήριο τού τι μπορεί να δημιουργήσει η φύση. Αυτή είναι η ιστορική αλήθεια για τα γεγονότα του 1974 και όλα τα υπόλοιπα που διαδίδονται ανήκουν, απλώς, στο χώρο των θρύλων και των παραδόσεων. Treat everyone with politeness even those who are rude to you, not because they are not nice but because you are nice... Last edited by: anastasia30 10/20/2008 06:17. Edited 1 times.
anastasia30		#13	[-]
Posts: 23 (10/20/2008 06:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I voted yes by accident. Can you fix that Skevi? Treat everyone with politeness even those who are rude to you, not because they are not nice but because you are nice...
asp2		#14	[-]
Posts: 18985 (10/20/2008 06:39) Sir Albert Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Does this mean, Anastasia that you DISAGREE with your Government that history textbooks should be amended 'to bolster peaceful coexistence between the island's Greek and Turkish speaking communities' ??? If this is the case and you do NOT believe in peaceful coexistece between Cypriots, then you must also believe in Partition, because those who cannot, or do not wish to live in peace must wish to live apart!!! Are there many more who think like you and Rauf Denktas???? "Love thy neighbour as thyself, BUT if thy neighbour wishes to cut thy throat because of thy nationality, religion, race or any other reason, make damn' sure you cut the bastard's throat first." (asp 2007)
Cypriana22		#15	[-]
Posts: 18309 (10/20/2008 16:23) Board Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	anastasia30 wrote: I voted yes by accident. Can you fix that Skevi? Sorry NO Time for Turkey to get out of Cyprus !
andreas18		#16	[-]
Posts: 8365 (10/20/2008 17:32) Moderator. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Asp, do not just read one article. It is not only politicians, clerics that oppose this move. It is also many teachers and their unions. The history that they have been teaching is not false. You can perfectly believe in your own history as we have different perceptions whilst at the same time wanting peace and reconciliation. I would only support a complete overhaul of which particular history that is being taught ONLY if it is done by a group of Greek, Turkish, Maronite/Armenian Cypriots. Maybe the logical thing is to teach history as it is but then say that there are different viewpoints in addition to the main narrative. But then one thinks, why should we? Is this not already discussed at a local level between friends, families etc etc? FTOU-ELEFTHERIA
andreas18		#17	[-]
Posts: 8365 (10/20/2008 17:35) Moderator. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	What cannot, and MUST not be forgotten is that there are TWO communities of Cypriots Do you agree that maybe the history books must show that Britain first used nationalism to describe different ethnic groups on the island? Anyways, it makes you think, to have unity on this subject people need to think the same... and how many political parties do both sides in Cyprus have? It is like a headache waiting to happen. FTOU-ELEFTHERIA Last edited by: andreas18 10/20/2008 17:55. Edited 1 times.
asp2		#18	[-]
Posts: 18985 (10/21/2008 03:21) Sir Albert Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Cypriana22 wrote: anastasia30 wrote: I voted yes by accident. Can you fix that Skevi? Sorry NO Actually .... if you now vote TWICE for NO, it will cancel the effect of unintended YES and restore the intention of voting NO. "Love thy neighbour as thyself, BUT if thy neighbour wishes to cut thy throat because of thy nationality, religion, race or any other reason, make damn' sure you cut the bastard's throat first." (asp 2007)
asp2		#19	[-]
Posts: 18985 (10/21/2008 03:28) Sir Albert Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	andreas18 wrote: Do you agree that maybe the history books must show that Britain first used nationalism to describe different ethnic groups on the island? 'Britain first used nationalism to describe different ethnic groups on the island'? What does that mean? There have been AT LEAST two ethnic groups of Cypriots on the island since soon after 1570 when the Turks did their usual trick of dumping settlers on lands they invaded and occupied, and before that there were 'Francs' and Venetian descendents some of whom exist today!! Does it take Britain to state the obvious?? "Love thy neighbour as thyself, BUT if thy neighbour wishes to cut thy throat because of thy nationality, religion, race or any other reason, make damn' sure you cut the bastard's throat first." (asp 2007)
Eros247		#20	[-]
Posts: 14963 (10/21/2008 08:45) The Sensitive One Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	asp2 wrote: Eros247 wrote: History books should in all cases reflect the truth. THE TRUTH?????? Whose 'truth'???? It has been said that a country's history books to be used for teaching the nation's schoolkids should be compiled by totally 'neutral third parties', and then one can never be sure of the 'total neutrality' of that 'third party'. My contention is that the product will be synthetic and impractical, but ..... Co-incidentally, I had a long discussion on this topic in Cyprus less than 2 weeks ago with a (Greek Cypriot) friend who has published recently an illustrated history of Cyprus in English and in Greek for pre-teens. A Turkish translation is planned. aspoui, I consciously used the word 'should' to describe what in theory must be the aim of history book authors. Obviously, and unfortunately, this probably doesn't happen anywhere with the exception perhaps of Germany, where a complete overhaul of society in terms of dealing with the past, the present and the future has taken place since the end of WW2. This, I believe, has had a very positive effect in that it has given newer generations the strength to say 'yes, our grandfathers did terrible things to fellow humans, we are unmeasurably sorry, it must never happen again and we are doing everything we can to keep it from happening again at home and abroad'...

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